Practice card process, and here is why.

We do not have scheduled recess, and when we do get to go out I supervise.

PE hours are state mandated, so I can't keep them from that.
Art/Music one day a week, short amount of time and those teachers must have them to be able to give them a grade. Not really an option.

My only option is to have them sit and practice a rule in class during independent work time, or just before leaving the room to go to one of the above places. This is where my doubt comes in. I feel that to have a child sit in a room in front of their peers coninually raising their hand could easily be looked upon as embarrassment/humiliation in through the eyes of a parents and I can definitely foresee some phone calls coming in about this. As a teacher I can see the purpose and how it would deter the student from continuing to break the rules, however it still concerns me a little. Could having the student reflect on the rule that was broken by answering questions such as what rule was broken, why is this rule important, how can we improve, etc... (on paper, written) be sufficient? I do not feel in this same way about sending the note home to the parent letting them know a rule needs to be practiced. I thought about making sticky labels with each rule to stick in agenda that is viewed nightly for this rather than the premade notes.

Can someone help me with my hesitations and do you understand what I am saying? Are there alternatives I can think about that would be just as effecitve?

I like your idea of practicing at home - what about before they go to lunch? I teach 7th graders, so I don't know how it works always in lower grades, but if they could practice 1 minute into lunch time, maybe that would work?? Do you have a built in center or down time for the students? Maybe you could stand in the doorway with a time and watch the students practice in the hallway while the others are in class.

Just ideas... I am curious to see what other people think.

the sending a note home is part of the WBT, Chris told us about that at the FL conference last week.

we really have no built in "down time" we are minute to minute right up until the dismissal bell.

1 minute into lunch time takes away from my time, and I don't like that. I guess I need to sacrifice somewhere to get what I expect accomplished though.

Nikki
You mentioned that you are the supervision at recess time. I would have them stand next to me while I am watching the class at recess. When they are standing next to me they are practicing raising thier hand and putting it down, raising their hand and putting it down...a bunch of times. This stings because they are watching all of their friends play while they are practicing. Let us know how it works, or any other things that you try.

Chris

Yah, sometimes you need to sacrifice for a little time in order to get long term results. I had them practice with me at my supervision time like Chris said. It works and even though I had to give up some of my time....it ended up saving me time because most the kids don't want to do it in front of everyone at recess.

barrrm, have you ever had parents not fond of students having to do this? I guess it's the embarrassment factor that has me hung up the most. There are much more politics involved in schools now than years ago, and I can definitely see some complaints to this.

Nikki
I can see what you are thinking and that is something to think about. I always run things by my principal first and see what they say. Explain to them that it is just for 2 minutes and the child is really having problems with breaking the rules.

Bring the parents in first also and have a small confernce and explain what is going on...explain all of the things you have been doing and how their child is still speaking out.

Give it a try.
Chris

Yes, I will definitely try! I guess seeing that the practice cards are level 2, I probably would already have spoken to parents of any students who have been breaking rules the first 3-4 weeks before practice cards are used. Letting parents know ahead of time what the next step is if rules continue to be broken, will give me forewarning of any problems. Thanks Chris, that helped!

I have never had a problem with it....If I did I would discuss with the parents what to do or what works for there particular child....It is a subtle embarrasment. Some aren't even fazed by it and don't even realize that other students might be watching...It is more for that child to show them what they are missing out on which is recess.

We don't have recess at all at our school, so what I generally do is this:

I get with another teacher on my grade level and ask her if my class can follow hers to PE/Specials. As soon as the class leaves the room, my kids who have earned that extra two minutes of positive practice ( ) begin their two minutes. In this way, they're usually finished before PE/Specials have actually begun. They haven't technically missed anything, but it still stings to have to be stuck with me for two minutes while I listen to my opera or bagpipe music.

(By the way: I am not a fan of opera or bagpipe music. But my kids don't know that. )

Kevin, you had me laughing out loud at the bagpipes/opera! I may have to try that. I really like your idea though, and will definitely keep that in mind.

BTW, I'm in Lakeland, what school are you at, I think I remember seeing you at the FL conference!

nikki.slinkard wrote:


Have the admit, the horrible music idea was inspired by someone else on these forums...I just don't remember who. I don't remember if they used bagpipes/opera or something or else...the bagpipes/opera might have been my idea.

Yeah, I was at the Wellington conference. I teach at Philip O'Brien Elementary (formerly Lime Street). Where do you teach?

Opera is not "bad music" to THIS music teacher! Bagpipes might get to me after awhile.

I don't do "punishment". I am a new wbt...been doing it for 3 weeks and it is AWESOME! What has worked for me really well is that instead of me putting a mark on my side of the scoreboard, if the problem is obviously with one student offending, I have him/her come up and put the mark. They don't like getting a personal mighty groan! I don't know if this is something that is part of the method, but I say, whatever works.

Kevin, I teach 4th grade at Highlands Grove. This is our 3rd year open. I didn't realize that Lime Street's name changed!

We don't think it is a good idea to point out a student and have him/her put a mark on the board. If you pick the wrong kid at the wrong time, you could create an explosive situation. And/or catch flack from a parent. Or, get the kid in trouble with classmates outside of class. So, Don't Do It! Better is just to point in the direction of where trouble is coming from, look in the opposite direction (so you don't make arousing eye contact) and say, "I've got some kids over there who aren't working hard enough." Also, remember IT'S A LONG YEAR. We have techniques to cover every kind of misbehavior, but we don't want to use them all up in the first few weeks. To address individual problems, use the Practice Cards (eventually) ... then go to the Guff Counter, the Independents ... etc. See the Levels menu above.

I think for me the hardest part so far has been holding off to go to that next step. I'm toughing it out though, controlling it best I can with scoreboard and hoping to hold out until at least October before going to the next level!

I understand what you are saying and your point is well taken. I don't do that often and when I have, I ALWAYS make sure that same student is caught doing something good and gets to put one up for an "Oh, yeah." I have had some real breakthroughs with this approach. I do it in a light-hearted way. I had a kid blurt out "I love you!" a couple of weeks ago. He had not been participating much...probably overage, from another neighborhood where liking the teacher is not cool. So I had him put a mark for blurting out and then immediately give the kids a point for his blurt being something sweet. He gave me a big hug and then sat down.

I never do ANYTHING in a punishing way. I don't believe in punishment, period. I am an adherent of Haim Ginott who said:

"The essence of discipline is finding effective alternatives to punishment. To punish a child is to enrage him and make him uneducable. In discipline, whatever creates hate must be avoided. Whatever creates self-esteem is to be fostered. Unlike ships, relationships founder on pebbles, not reefs. A teacher can be most destructive or most instructive in dealing with everyday disciplinary problems. His instant response makes the difference between condemnation and consolation, rage and peace. Good discipline is a series of little victories in which a teacher, through small decencies, reaches a child's heart....The inner landscape of many children is ful of mines ready to explode upon careless contact. Any insulting remark can set off an explosion."

I appreciate everything I have learned here so much. The child who challenged me most the first couple of weeks of school is now singing in my choir! I actually think it takes quite a bit of emotional intelligence to be an effective teacher. And I think it is important to be able to say "I'm sorry" when you make a mistake which we all do.

Besides Ginott, I highly recommend Karen Pryor's book "Don't Shoot the Dog!" It is a very readable book on all the intricacies of behavior modification. She says that nobody should be a parent until he/she can teach a chicken to dance!

FYI, at least two of the music teachers in my district I forwarded the site to are now doing WBT and loving it.

Cadenza
You are totally right on about the discipline aspect of WBT. Our whole mindset is that kids are not going to respond if we yell. So, our therory has always been that, "You are having trouble following the rules...you just need some more practice." You have to say this calmly and with a smile. Practice is the key to it all...if they practice it, it will come. That way we are totally diffussing the situation.

Great job in spreading the word...Keep it up! It would be great to hear from more of your colleagues.
Chris

Thanks, Chris. I am also trying to spread the word via my Facebook page where I frequently post about my success with WBT. I have many teachers among my "friends". I just posted the video from the Louisiana conference. If you are on Facebook, friend me. I am Diane Randle Woodward.

Is there a way to check to see if there are posts here by my two colleagues? I guess I could ask them if they have posted. We are not at the same schools...both are music teachers like me in other elementary schools. I think one is really doing the method whole-heartedly like me. The other is just getting started. He overheard Terri and I talking about it and checked it out on his own. He is in the top magnet elementary school in Shreveport. I have recently moved to what has in the past been the top neighborhood school in the district, but the school I moved from scored as high last year. My "new" is 2 minutes from my house rather than 35 and has a lot more parental support. My own son actually attended here (where I am now) 20 years ago. He was in the only identified "gifted" ECE in the district which is housed at my school. What a unique and delightful group to teach!

I developed a workshop for my district based on Ginott's principles. Teachers keep signing up for it and I have presented it about seven times now, including at a regional music conference. There is no need to be punitive if you have the right tools. If all you have is a hammer, that's all you can use. WBT complements what I already have been teaching to other teachers. Ginott gives a great philosophy and some specific ways to talk and relate to children to gain their cooperation and not destroy their self-esteem. WBT gives some very specific tools for keeping the children totally engaged. It makes being the loving teacher Ginott advocated an easier goal to achieve.

I don't like the practice card idea either. I think there is the potential for humiliation, much more than having a student just give me a point, done in a lighthearted way and balanced by getting to give his peers a point as soon as he shows anything positive. I think you have to be very sensitive to the population and culture in which you teach, and of course, the individual. You have to gain the love and respect of the students above all else.

The other thing I don't like about it is that it punishes the teacher by taking what little breathing space time she or he has. I often give up my free time to do auditions, work with a soloist, or counsel a child who comes to me for help with a problem. But I don't want to use my time supervising behavior practice.

I do agree that things that some teachers use as punishment can be framed as "practice" and be much more effective. For instance, lots of teachers punish kids for talking by angrily making them put their heads down. I have a timer and if they keep breaking rule # 2, I tell them that we need practice at being quiet, so I put the timer on one minute and we practice being silent and still. If someone breaks the silence, I start the timer over since we apparently need a little more practice. I rarely have to do this, but it works. If it were in the context of a class that they didn't enjoy, it could actually be reinforcing of the negative behavior.

This is just my perspective and opinion. Your mileage may vary. ;-}