So I've held out and held out but finally used the Independents for one of my 10th grade Algebra I classes. For the record, I do know it is a LONG YEAR, and we are in week 14 out of 18 weeks for the semester. It seemed to work quite well for the first day but marking good and bad points on the adjusted scoreboard was a bit awkward. Let me back up. First, I made a new seating chart and placed the 5 Independents together in one area of the room and then got the class busy passing back papers. Then I nonchalantly took those 5 into the hallway to explain the situation. They seemed cool with the idea (not that I was asking their opinion)....one kid even seemed excited about only having to worry about his behavior and that of the other 4 independents. What he didn't know was that even though they were about to work hard at getting the job done the right way, they were not about to win.

So my question is this.....What do you say to the class to let them know which of the 2 groups earned the positive point or negative point? For example, both groups do some great stuff worthy of a positive point....so should I just say "both the class and the independents, you've earned a point" and then have them respond with one big mighty oh yeah? Then, mark both points one after the other, one for each of the 2 groups? OR, do I tell each group one at at time that they've earned a point and then ask for a mighty oh yeah for the class group and then separately for the independents group? It just seemed sloppy, probably just because it's new and I'm a beginner at it. I'm good at the regular scoreboard and have been using it since a year and a half ago. Only this year have I had enough really challenging students to need this level. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks much.

Thanks again for all of the WBT Trainers for this Saturday's conference in Hemet. Once again, I'm invigorated. Woo!

Good to see you on here!!

Here's what I do:

If everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing, I mark a point on each and point to the class - they give a an oh yeah, and I keep going. No need to announce it - they can see.

If its just the class that does it correctly and someone in the independents is messing up, the class gets a point on their scoreboard, and one on your side for the independents, let the class give an oh yeah and move on. The independents will get the point - no need to scold or lecture. You could say something like, "class that was awesome, back group you have some people playing around - point for me."

Just remember the independent are choosing to stay together, if one of the messes up, they all mess up!

Hey there. Thanks so much for the quick response. That makes perfect sense. My class was much smaller today with 8 kids absent so it was more of a mellow day with them. The whole class took good notes and paid attention well. It was a struggle but I found a way to catch the independents once or twice doing the wrong thing. Nobody has asked to leave the group yet. However, there are 2 independents who have been absent for these first two days....and they are repeat offenders when it comes to getting points on the wrong side of the scoreboard. I think when I see this class again on Thursday (and all are present), we'll see some independents wanting to get out. I'm leaving it up to them though like a good WBTer.

Just thought of this....what if none of them ask to get out even though they keep losing while the class wins? Also, do I make sure the independents always lose? What if they get so good at doing the right thing that they end up doing well on the scoreboard and win? Am I to prevent that from happening? Or would I just disband the independents group since they are playing so nicely with the rest of the class?

Sorry so many questions....I just want to be prepared because this is a tough class. I'm confident this will work out but want to be sure I'm doing the right things to help that along.

Other classes going great. Thanks again.

You are asking some great questions about this groups that we all have eventually...the independents. First about scoring them, just another option; I have the whole class give the cheer or the groan when the independents get a mark on either side. Sarah said it well also. We just don't want to bring attention to them any more than we have to and with a Mighty Groan when it's just them they may take that chance to be silly.

The age old question is, "What if they don't ask to get out?" You want to make it so they do, and that means the reward for the class has to be really good/enticing. I'll admit, live is different in 10th grade than it is in 4th, but motivated kids are all the same. You can also put it in a box and say we are doing this for the next 4 days and I want to see some improvement. If they win, great job, that could be the goal, and that means that they are changing their behavior which is what we want.

Once they see that they can make the right choices, you have succeeded. They may be back next week, but at least for now they are on the right track...self monitoring. Keep posting, great questions.

Chris said it all!! The prize just has to be good enough that they want to win - or that they will regret not winning with the rest of the class.

You also asked what to do if they get good at doing the right thing - I agree that if you can't find a reason to give them in negative points, then they get to go back with the rest of the class. I would not fake a loss on them (except for the first time) - but you also don't want to go easy on them and make them think that hanging out in the same group is a good time.

Keep us updated!

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So I FINALLY decided to try the Independents this year - my second full year of using WBT...I hadn't been sure when or how to use it. But this year, it became crystal clear that I had a couple of students who were "working together" to undermine my leadership. They were constantly calling out (without raising hands, getting out of their seats, etc. and this had resulted in my giving negative points for the entire class. I could tell that the class was getting weary of being punished for those few students' bad behavior. And I also realized that they were playing off each other.

Keep in mind that I teach 9th grade,so recess doesn't work, and to be bold, I think freshmen in high school shouldn't have to be reminded more than a few times about the rules.... Now, I CAN give detentions, and do, for egregious and unsafe behavior, but I prefer to try to use WBT techniques when possible as I believe they help the kids learn to self-regulate more than punitive measures.

Anyhow, I took the four offenders aside yesterday and explained how the Independents worked. They were actually THRILLED to have their VERY OWN SCOREBOARD! But of course, they lost (and I didn't have to rig it - their bad habits just overpowered them), and got homework while the rest of the class didn't. Still, I didn't give them MUCH extra homework (because in truth, I don't assign much to begin with). So I'm wondering how it will go today.

Should I let them rejoin the class if they ask today? I guess I'm concerned that that's "letting them off too easy." I mean, what if they just go back to their "old ways" when those "old ways" are still fresh in their minds? Do I put them right back in the Independents again?

Or, because they're older kids, do I make them stay in the Independents until the end of the week (3 days) before they're allowed to opt out? (Just to be sure they are completely on board?)

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.....

- Jen

Jen, I hope a secondary person helps you more than I can. In my primary experience I leave the independents stew for a while especially if other students have joined them to just go along! It has been my experience that the go a longs find they want to opt. Out first. Then you have the tough independent who may correct behaviors at this time or you may have to look at the other WBT strategy to get their cooperation.
Hope this helps a little.

Thanks Annette!

I did keep them in the Independents today (as of now, I have not given them the option of re-joining the rest of the class). The situation was NOT that they were "dragging" the rest of the class along - they were pretty much a self-contained clique that enjoyed breaking the rules as a group and giggling and egging each other on when they did it - to the disgust of the rest of the class. Truth be told, I probably should have acted sooner....

BUT...yesterday they lost and got homework the rest of the kids didn't have to do (not sure how to handle this in my gradebook as of yet....admin will think it's weird if I record a grade for only four students and exempt the rest....I may just not record it - chances are they'll never notice

TODAY....I really didn't have any relevant homework that I could give them, so I decided to go for a positive reward. I told them that if they (class or Independents - or both) are ahead on the ScoreBoard tomorrow at the end of class, that I will give them a homework pass good for the rest of the semester.

Then, and I think this is really the key part... ANY time one of the Independents broke a rule, I marked a negative point. Within the first 5 minutes of class, they were COMPLETELY COWED! It was magic, let me tell you.... So, then I started looking for positive points to give them, which I did.

Nonetheless, by the end of the period, the class was ahead by one point, but the Independents were TIED. If they continue to do this well, I may let them win tomorrow (with the class) AND then give them the option to opt out on Monday. I think they're beginning to get the message

IF any other secondary teachers out there have other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks
Jen